The Logic Behind Homosexual Discrimination
By: Barry Belmont

I’ve never quite understood why so many otherwise decent people go absolutely bezonkers when it comes to something like Don’t-Ask-Don’t-Tell and gay marriage. And if you, like I, thought it was bad in America, it is nothing compared to the festering hatred found in places like Uganda. Below is an actual lecture by one of the leading advocates of the “Anti-Homosexuality” bill in Uganda. This video is what you get when there is a perfect storm failure of government, religion, and critical thinking.

It’s funny until you realize that he’s serious. …that people believe him. …that he thinks gay people should be killed.

…so next time you think of saying that gays shouldn’t be allowed to marry, consider that you are only one step removed from this and to the rest of us who believe that people should be free, you’re just as crazy as this guy.

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Fashion and Intellectual Property Rights
By: Barry Belmont

Gotta love the TEDTalks. Here is Johanna Blakely showing the beauty of an open field of productivity and its effects on creativity. She shows how the absence of intellectual property boosts the abilities and success of the fashion industry in this excellent video. Who knew libertarianism could look so good?

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When Governments Fail: The Right to Die
By: Barry Belmont

Chantal Sebire, who suffers from esthesioneuroblastoma.A French high court has just decided that a 52 year-old disfigured woman (seen at right) who has suffered unimaginable physical and psychological pain due to a rare disease is not allowed to have her qualified (and willing) doctor administer a lethal dose of drugs to end her suffering and kill her. Law should exist only insofar as it seeks to limit human suffering — all laws, after all, should be negative laws (do not kill, do not steal) — and yet this is not what laws seek to do under governments. Laws under governments are almost worse than arbitrary as are too often left in the hands of those who would rather play semantic games than use those codifications to the reasonable purpose of reducing human suffering. Hence, under “law”, this lady must continue to suffer.

Chantal Sebire (the woman) has said she won’t appeal the courts decision but she intends to find life-terminating drugs through other means. “I now know how to get my hands on what I need, and if I don’t get it in France, I will get it elsewhere,” she said.

Can anyone really believe in the benevolence of the State anymore? I’m sorry Ms. Sebire has suffered and I can only hope through her own efforts and those around her willing to help, she will end it once and for all.

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AnarchoDebates: Barry v. Keegan 5
By: Barry Belmont

Barry’s Final Email

Hello.

This will need to be the last response. You have gone around in an entire circle and have started doing the very thing that I said frustrates me so much in The Parable of the Pawnbroker. In fact, many of your criticisms take the form those I mentioned in A Critique of Free Markets. As such, I apologize, but my patience has run too thin for me to continue this discussion past this letter. Since this is the case I will wrap everything up. And you won’t have to bog yourself down trying to answer my rhetorical questions.

Anarchocapitalism is the idea that all people own themselves to begin with and all actions between self-owners must be voluntary. It is when we recognize that this is the null position, that voluntary actions should be all that there is, we realize that it should not be the anarchocapitalists who must defend their position, but rather the Statist who must prove it is wrong. A Statist must show that there are certain voluntary actions which people should not be allowed (such as starting their own courts, not paying their taxes, going into the military business) and more generally that there are certain coercive actions which only the State can perform (taxation, as a key example). For too long it has been placed upon the anarchists’ heads to say why we shouldn’t have a State. We can point to the legitimized use of force as an invasion of rights (to see what I mean by this, follow the logic presented in A Philosophy of Philosophy). We can say that it must — practically by definition — be inefficient and that this waste is hidden and unnecessary. We can show that all the arguments in favor of the State are flawed and without merit, more often based upon faith, emotion, and misplaced fear than on logical reasoning and looking at actual effects of a State, rather than its desired effects. We must remember that just because we want something to be true, doesn’t make it so. We may want a State that is kept utterly in check, never strays, is perfectly fair, never overly coercive…but we can’t have it. It’s not possible. To believe you can have that is to believe a lie. This is why we need to have free and open markets actually tell us about the net well-being generated by something: when something succeeds in the market, it is because people feel it benefits them. This cannot be claimed for the State enterprise which lacks the ability to actually know how much its products produce beneficially compare to the costs of stealing money from its citizens.

Since you unfortunately cannot understand arguments of any considerably length, subtlety, or nuance, I will respond directly to your questions. I am assuming that these are your big big big objections, if you have other objections that you gain after reading my responses, maybe you should calm down a bit and take a look at what it is you’re really doing. Are you so sure that you aren’t just looking to disagree for the sake of disagreeing or misunderstanding the point being made in the context it’s being made? I have been told I have a knack for making people disagree with me on principle, are you sure you aren’t falling into the same trap as they are? Let’s hope not. If these aren’t your biggest, baddest objections, then I’m sorry you chose the wrong time to pick a bad question.

How are laws created? Are there multiple sets of laws or does everyone adhere to the same ones?
Unfortunately you misunderstand my position in regards to promoting anarchocapitalism. By way of analogy, consider the difference between an economist and an entrepreneur. Economists speak of how things work and maybe even sometimes what their effects would be, provided its not too fuzzy or beyond their limited scope of sight. They map the landscape. Entrepreneur are the ones who actually put things to work and is rewarded or punished by their effects. They explore the landscape. Entrepreneurs are the ones that make socks and televisions possible while an economist is only able to say if they are possible.

It is the same with me as a proponent of anarchocapitalism: I find myself to be an economist. I can say whether something it theoretically possible, but not how those possibilities will manifest itself. I could tell you in the 50s that a handheld music player was possible, but could I have ever told you about the iPod? No. I don’t know what the ideal handheld music play is, but I am made confident by the laws of economics that the market will tend toward the customers ideal.

Similarly with laws within an anarchocapitalist society. I don’t have to know how the laws are created within each society or whether their are multiple sets of laws or a single set, that is not what the economist needs to answer. I need only show that laws can be created privately and be subjected to the same laws of economics as all other goods and services. Since I have already shown this at great length in my original lecture, I won’t repeat myself here, as this looks to be a long letter anyway. So the exact answer is: only the market will tell. Some entrepreneur may come up with a law making system or a set of laws that absolutely revolutionizes the way we talk about them (much as Apple did with the iPod and handheld music players).

How do you stop the police from arresting innocent people?
I asked you this question and your response was: “the fact that they exist gives me hope. A [...] system with strict rules governing it and keeping its power from growing. A [system] with the ability to vote out people that are overly coercive.” Do you find this convincing it? If so then I merely claim that the system is private and we move on. But obviously that’s not substantive enough. The better answer is to simply ask back (to make it obvious), how do you stop anybody from doing anything bad?

Within a free market system when someone does something that customers don’t like, they are punished financially for the blunder, often times to the point of going out of business. Just as good businesses are rewarded. Do you honestly believe a police force that was known for assaulting innocent people would last? No. I’m not going to claim that no private police force will ever arrest an innocent person, that would be ridiculous. But when you arrest the wrong person, you’ll pay for it (whether actually financially or in reputation or whatever the market decides). (The market of course being “the sum total of all voluntary actions between self-owners.”)

So once again, directly, the way you stop police from arresting innocent people is to rely on their good judgment not to and to punish them financially (maybe even physically) when that judgment is off. This is exactly how people are kept from doing anything bad. People are presumed to be innocent and when they’re not they’re punished.

If a person refuses to pay the courts, can they receive justice? If a person refuses to pay the police, can they get protection?
Watch it again. These are answered directly.

How do you ensure that all courts accept that human beings own themselves?
This is just a variation on the how-do-you-keep-people-from-doing-bad-stuff critique answered above.

But on the off-chance that’s not good enough, consider the two possibilities the court has under a free market: it can either fail or it can succeed. If people don’t like courts that don’t presume self-ownership, that business is not likely not going to stay in business long at all. If on the other hand people love it, can’t get enough of it, then that business will succeed. Either way it directly reflects what individuals want in a judicial system.

Your story
I hate it when people present lifeboat situations as their main objection to something. “You know, an iPod won’t work if you leave it in your car for a long time during the summer, that proves that it isn’t a viable option…” Do you honestly believe that your situation would be a frequent occurrence? Frequent to the point of detrimental? Or significant to the point of inviability. For any system of justice there will be a lot of individual scenarios that we can try to spice up with details and muddle to make it harder to find a clear answer. When a ship is sinking who gets on the lifeboat first? Women and children? Which ones? Why? Why not the others? Why not the men? Such a situation — just like the private courts in your story — would have to be handled at the individual level with people using their best judgments to try to sort out a difficult situation…just as iPod manufacturers must decide whether to go with chip A or chip B both of which run only exclusive softwares 1 and 2 (and never the twain shall meet). My job is not answer every tiny detail of something as complex as a judicial system, but only to argue that “justice without coercion upon innocent people” is better than “justice with coercion upon innocent people.” (You’ll recognize the most prominent form of “coercion upon innocent people” as taxation at this point.)

And that’s why when I criticize a State run justice system I don’t have to present an infrequent, overly-detailed situation, I have only look at the current system, which is your system, your solution to the problem of justice. Your solution to the differences of courts problem is to aggress against everybody and spread the injustice around by having everyone go to the same arbitrator, the State. But what happens when you have a complaint against the State? See, no tricks, no fancy details, no life-boat scenarios, just simply who do you turn to when the State wrongs you? We all understand the importance of objectivity in matters of justice, but this is glaringly missing when someone brings a suit against the State, as they are their own arbitrators (as I have already discussed at length in my lecture).

A Brief Interlude
I’d like it you to notice, just for your own sake in the art of argumentation, that 647 words into your 2,380 word response you claimed “I don’t really want a response to anything said after this point.” What this suggests in the remaining 70+% of what you had to say is worthless. Utterly pointless and tangential to the conversation. Not worth either your time and mind. It was this, above all else, that “did it for me” and has made me realize you’re not interested in a discussion about the plausibility of anarchocapitalism.

Deus ex Machina
Your critique of anarchy is not new nor particularly significant: in fact it’s the reason you and many others give to support “a State.” You claim anarchy is unable to provide “a system of lawmaking, enforcement, and [a] judicial system” and thus we must call upon tyrants to give it to us. But this is equivalent to saying “I cannot think of how A would occur on the free and open market, therefore A cannot occur on the free and open market, therefore A must be provided by something extraneous to the free and open market.” Practically every objection to anarchocapitalism is of this flavor “I can’t see how police could be provided on the free market. Since it can’t be provided on the free market, the State is thus necessary to provide this.” It is a categorical error lacking all meaning since A can be anything: roads, medicine, defense, shoes, ice cream, you name it. It’s exactly akin to me saying “I can’t think of how television would occur on the free market, hence they can’t occur, thus they must be provided by the government.” There is, at base, no difference in the nature of “being a product” between a police force, a television, an iPod, an email service, or a judicial system. They all rely upon honest signals coming from voluntarily acting individuals. Everything does. And it’s when we pretend that a judicial system or a law-creating apparatus is absolutely removed from such market signalling that we make the foolish claim that Only The State Shall Provide.

Think about it, what exactly about stealing money from others leads to law-creation? I think you think you have answered this, in fact many people think they have, but how is a State able to do something that freely acting individuals cannot? What is it about “stealing money from others” that is better in the realm of defense services than “freely trading with others.” It’s clear that nothing is better and that most people are only defending the status quo. Everyone grows up believing in this Great God the State and few are able to critically evaluate why they believe that States (or just a single State in your case) should exist. Think about what it is you believe…you somehow believe there is this barbarism inherent in anarchocapitalism (lacking justice, defense, laws apparently) and that from out of nowhere, benighted individuals step forward with unquestionable power over other people, steal from them legitimately, force their labor, invade their sovereignty, and bring justice and law and order to all the inferior others. It’s the ultimate Just-So story.

The End
From what I’ve gathered you support a State above anarchy. As I hinted at, I see this as nothing more than you (and the many others like you) trying to rationalize your support for the status quo by working backward rather than trying to start from first principles and work your way forward. Otherwise it would entail that if you were living in a voluntary society that seemed to be thriving just fine, you would rally against it and say we need kings and rulers and tyrants to protect us from ourselves.You would claim that coercion and taxation and physically forcing others into things would vastly improve the human condition. We can see this as absurd. There is nothing about coercion and taxation and physically forcing others into things which would vastly improve the human condition, and yet these are the only attributes we have agreed that a State possesses. There is nothing inherent in the nature of a State that it provide equitable justice or fair laws or non-oppressive defense service, these are colors you add to your picture which are not actually present: you’re trying to spruce up your definition of a State so that people will come to better enjoy it, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with a State. You want justice and you want good laws, why not subject it to the same forces of voluntary human interaction when we want good iPods or clothing or houses or food? There is nothing about coercion that leads to a good society. Are all States better than anarchy? Every single one?

I have tried to be clear that what I am against in States is their inherent monopoly of defense services and their use of physical coercion through the legitimized theft known as taxation. I have absolutely no problem accepting a society based on democratic principles or communist ideals or benevolent kingships, so long as its voluntary. But a State can never be voluntary, by its very nature. Too often those who try to debate against the idea of anarchocapitalism say without a State there would be no law, no order, no justice, no defense: it would be chaos. Upon what evidence is this claim based? I have shown within the bulk of my lecture that private police, courts, and laws can function within a society on principle, and this is all I needed to prove. Am I to be blamed because tyrants and their adherents maintaining the status quo have not allowed the experiment to be run in real life? We have seen the failures of States time and time again, we have seen what coercion (in a thousand different flavors) can do to the human condition. Don’t you think its time we try the social experiment of a voluntary society? A private society? A society free of States?

If you still feel that stealing from people (and then giving back in a bastardized form) in order to exert a power you feel you justly possess over them is the best way to run a society, then this will now be your problem, and not mine. I sit on the side of angels. I feel that personal responsibility and a lack of legitimized coercion and a society based upon the corrective actions of free and open markets — which are merely the sum total of all interactions between voluntarily consenting adults — must necessarily better the human condition far more than one based upon tyranny, coercion, and fear, as all States systems must inevitably found themselves in.

Looking back upon this conversation, you should be convinced, if nothing else, in the illegitimacy of the State. I have addressed the fact that you are an anarchist to all other States, I have pointed out that you must believe in a world-wide government to be logical consistent, I have shown that in-group/out-group mentality is a non-issue. I have asked you how the governing and governed can peaceably coexist under coercive forces and not under voluntary conditions, I have asked why people can’t be moral or remain moral without a State, I have ask you to prove why States should exist and why we should reject the anarchist position. You need only critically look upon your responses and mine to see why this debate is over. You have not really addressed any of these topics, nor why State oppression is more tolerable than private “oppression” or why it is okay for someone from the IRS to literally steal your money but an everyday crook should be punished. In fact you still have not gotten over the first big hurtle: in supporting a State you are necessarily agreeing to the idea that there are certain voluntary interactions which innocent, consenting adults cannot be allowed to do.

I feel you should be convinced by my arguments, can you honestly say the same to me?

Until next time,
Barry

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AnarchoDebates: Barry v. Keegan 4
By: Barry Belmont

This is going to be the last email of Keegan’s that will be shared, as I have decided this debate will come to a close. (This will be explained further in the final email from me in the next post).

Keegan’s Fourth Email

Alright, I clearly misunderstood most of what you were trying to say before (don’t repeat this back to me, as I said it, I know I said it). I clearly thought you were advocating a coercionless state–which you can’t blame me entirely for this because you do spend time ranting against coercion whenever you discuss the state–but I see now that you are not (it did bother me slightly that the view you seemed to be promoting in this conversation differed from your lecture). Now that I have read the lengthy Rothbard paper you published on the UNRforliberty website, I have a better understanding of the view that you hold. I understand that I seem to focus on smaller details rather than larger ideas while debating. It is difficult for me to do otherwise, but I will try my best. However, when you ask specific questions or make statements that I disagree with, I see no other way to approach it than making specific responses. Also, please disregard my being able to see arguments from the other side (at least for this response–because clearly there needs to be some details that need to be explained to me as if I were a child). What I want out of this particular response is not to debate whether anarchocapitalism is possible, but rather to probe you on the specifics of how anarchocapitalism works.

Now that qualifying is completed, we can start with the real substance. Clearly we both seem to identify that the hardest part of understanding how a stateless system works is enforcing laws (although we haven’t covered it making laws is also an enigma to me). I hope you don’t mind that I just go with a slew of questions on this subject.

How are laws created? Are there multiple sets of laws or does everyone adhere to the same ones?
How do you stop the police from arresting innocent people?
If a person refuses to pay the courts, can they receive justice?
If a person refuses to pay the police, can they get protection?
You previously stated, that all courts should accept that human beings own themselves, but how do you ensure that this is the case?

Perhaps if I can give a story of what it seems like could happen, you can explain to me why this is wrong, I’ll try to use your example. If court A along with A’s adherents are a bigoted group that decide that gingers have no standing in a court of law. One of A’s adherents named Aee, files suit against a ginger named Bee, saying that Bee stole his car. Now the court A of course finds Bee guilty. So gathering from what you said before, Bee goes to a separate court (court B), where he is found innocent. The two courts then have to go under arbitration of a third. Court A is only willing to go to racist courts, while court B is only willing to go to non-racist ones. What happens? Do police A have a right to snag up Bee and throw him in prison?
There are a few situations that differ slightly that also must be addressed:
-What if Bee doesn’t have money for court services?
-What if Bee is arrested before he has a chance to file his own suit?

The biggest reason for me thinking that we need the state is that we need a system of lawmaking, enforcement, and judicial system. Addressing the issues I stated above will remove my biggest reason for thinking that we need the state. Later we may be able to discuss which is better for these three purposes, but that is a discussion for another time.

Now if you don’t mind I will defend myself against some of your accusations. I don’t really want a response to anything said after this point, but I do feel that you unfairly characterize my point of view. Since I am going to be refuting specific points, I see no way to do it aside from point by point.

I previously stated that the state forces involuntary actions, rather than stopping voluntary ones. You responded by saying that not paying your taxes is a voluntary action that is not allowed. If you want to consider not doing something an action, then sure, the state stops voluntary actions. But to talk about seeing the trees not the forest and then nitpick obvious semantics seems a bit hypocritical.

You then follow up by asking how taxation protects freedoms. The reason why the state is able to protect freedoms is that it provides for legislation, enforcement, and a judicial system. As discussed earlier, I do not yet accept that anarchy can do this, but I certainly am willing to consider any other options provided they are at least as watertight as the state system (which as you rightly point out is a fairly leaky boat). The reason a single state army is better than a bunch of small ones, is that since it functions together as a single unit, it is better at fighting off aggressors, and since it is not prone to infighting, it is not weakened by interactions with the other small armies, but this is a topic for another time.

You rightly characterize me as a person that sees the destruction of a state as falling into chaos. I currently see the state as being the only protection against one group oppressing another. I realize that the state itself is prone to oppressing its subjects but this is why control over the state must be controlled by its subjects. My preconceived notions of the chaos being the result of anarchy may very well be exactly that, unjustified preconceived notions, but they are based in the idea that I don’t see how anarchy could stop oppression by one group onto another. When I initially asked you about this point (in person) you stated, “and thats why Shouldland High gets crushed by Reality Tech.” This is an important point though; if there is no way to stop those with the most power from doing whatever the hell they want, then the destruction of the state is the precursor to chaos (maybe not Mad Max style, but not far off). So if you want me to drop this notion that anarchy=chaos, you must sometime explain how anarchy can stop one group from oppressing another.

You seem to think that I hold the state up as an ideal, but this is not the case. I simply don’t yet see anarchy as a viable option. I understand that the state has many problems, some of which you point out very well, but unless anarchy can do all of the things that a state is necessary for (in my mind this comes down solely to protecting individual freedoms), then the state must be accepted as the only option. Its the same point as I’ve had in every response and every talk. Hopefully we may come to some sort of agreement or at least understanding on this.

You mention Sam Harris, as saying there are three ways to argue [for religion]: 1) defend your specific [religion] 2) describe the usefulness [of your religion] 3) attack [atheism]. Now in respect to religion only 1 is correct. But in regards to government this is not true. The point of government is not to espouse truth, but to be useful. So defending its usefulness is valid. Anarchy is a situation of no government. If it is not viable, then a state is necessary. Therefore, all three are valid in the discussion of government.

There of course are good and bad reasons for having a state. The main good reason for having a state is the protection of freedoms (which is hopefully what we are addressing–that a state is unnecessary for this). It has a few other benefits, but they aren’t really that important. The bad reasons are obvious. You know them and I know them, but if you really want me to list them, I will.

Sorry but there is something that I need to quote directly:
“”State A will make people more moral” or “State B gives people a high standard of living” is not enough to prove that either A or B should exist. ”
I disagree. I think that is plenty of reason to show that A or B should exist. Unless you don’t think that morality or a high standard of living has any worth. Not that I think any state will make anyone moral, but the reason that I support Capitalism opposed to Communism is exactly because it gives people a higher standard of living. I mean there are other reasons, but that is the most important one. It seems strange to me that things being better would not be a reason to support a certain style of government. What other reason could there be? I mean even anarchy you probably support because things will be better under it (more freedom, less corruption, more efficiency etc.). I don’t know what else to say, but I can’t imagine why you would disagree with this statement.

Let me be clear about this, the main reason that the state is useful is for the protection of individual freedoms. If an anarchy can somehow do this better then sign me up, you just have to show me that it can. Now don’t get pissed here and say that you did and I’m an idiot for not understanding. It is possible that this is true, but it helps nothing. Simply state what happens in anarchy in each situation, I’ll try to come up with situations anarchy can’t handle, and you show how it can handle them.

If this is really what you thought I was saying as my ideal, way to go. If this instead is your attempt at satire, then I find your humor incomprehensible. You can repeat everything I said the exact opposite of the way I said it, but I fail to see the joke. We can debate whether my ideal is possible, but I suggest we wait on that until we compare and contrast anarchy and my ideal. This shouldn’t happen until I understand how exactly anarchy functions.

But since you asked the question, a democracy and a republic are not mutually exclusive. A democracy means rule by the people, a republic means rule without a king. A federation seems more functional than a confederation. Confederations in their truest form seem unable to accomplish anything. A small military is better than a big one because it costs less, and if shit goes wrong and the government needs to be overthrown this is easier. I shouldn’t have to convince you that free movement of people is a good thing, I believe you’ve already accepted that position, but regardless, I gave some reasons in the description of my ideal, but really quickly, freedom and evolution. And legitimizing the “social contract” if its not legitimate enough already.

If the way you have been talking is what you consider concise with tight prose, then I would hate to be faced with a lengthy response. Already it pushes my attention span. So I want to express how grateful I am that you have been attempting to make it short. I have been too, but I am terrible at it.

You are totally right on “Total State”. I should have seen what you meant. I was so used to that term being used with a different meaning, it blinded me to how you meant it.

“where voluntary actions necessarily devolved into chaos without coercive intervention against innocent people”
I didn’t dismiss it, I gave you the example of Ireland having slavery. But this I only used as the example because it was already used as an example of “good anarchy”. I could have easily used situations of “bad anarchy” such as Rwanda, Uganda, the French Revolution, etc. You may say that the actions weren’t voluntary, it was one group oppressing another. But this exactly what I mean. If you want me to show how mutually agreed to transactions could devolve into chaos, I couldn’t, and I have never claimed that it would. The problem is the same point as always. I don’t yet see how anarchy can protect people’s freedoms.

I know I can get caught up in statements rather than seeing the whole. There are lots of reasons, but they aren’t important. I’ll try to stop this though.

Hopefully you can understand my position on why the state (and by extension taxes) is necessary. I’ve tried to make it as clear as possible that I only support it because it seems that it can do what anarchy cannot (provide legislation, enforcement and justice). This is the crux of the discussion, and hopefully soon we will reach some sort of agreement on this, and move on to comparing the two systems. If you adequately explain to me how anarchy justice works this should be unnecessary, but if I become an anarchist and you still want to know how my previous ideal could function we could discuss it (though I don’t see too much point in it if I no longer supported it).

Yes, my biggest objection was IG/OG mentality, but that was only to show that one group very well may decide to oppress another group against their will. It seemed like you agreed with this at least being a possibility. This only leads to the rest of the problem: how does anarchy stop this? So really, to me at least, it seems that we are still hashing out the same initial objection.

So that we are on the same page, force only used on guilty people, seems difficult to arrange. This is my main problem. How do you stop force being used on innocent people? The first part of this e-mail is focused on how you stop this on an individual scale, but in order for me to truly understand anarchocapitalism, we are also going to have to address this on a group scale.

Keegan

P.S. I didn’t mean to make it so long and repetitive, but I wanted to make sure that we are on the same discussion.

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AnarchoDebates: Barry v. Keegan 3
By: Barry Belmont

Keegan’s Third Email

I regret so much bringing up God. The arguments are not analogous at all. But I feel that despite all of this talk we are at exactly the same place. I’m pretty sure I understand your arguments, but I can see that you are either deliberately misunderstanding mine or since you are so used to hearing theist vs atheist arguments you actually are unable to see the difference between this and a religious argument. Much in the same way, I imagine that you think that I don’t understand your arguments because I think that the two arguments are obviously not parallel. I won’t dissect your entire paper (because most of it amounts to contradiction and repetition rather than real argument). But I will address points that I see as new, rare as they may be.

“You hold that people simply couldn’t be moral without a State.”
-I never said that. In fact I think I directly addressed, that that was NOT what I was saying. I simply said that people will not always be moral (with or without a State). Therefore there needs to be some mechanism to disincentive immoral action.

“Where in the literature can you point to examples that say voluntary actions necessarily devolve into chaos without coercive intervention?”
-Again, I never said necessarily, indeed I mentioned an example of where this did not happen (NW coastal Indians). But if you must have an example of where this does happen, look at the Ireland anarchy example. They had slavery. Slavery by definition is coercion.

“I’m not the one making any significantly positive claims.”
-Funny that you mention that because I didn’t think you were saying anything either. If you really don’t see how saying, “A system without coercion is possible” is not making a positive claim, this may be more hopeless than I thought. And this is the very least of your claims.

“*why* would you believe in the legitimacy of one government over another?”
-I’m not going to address the nonsense in which you meant this, instead I’m going to address what you should have meant by this question had you been more prone to discussion rather than bickering. The reason why some governments are better than others is that some of them promote wellbeing more efficiently than others, and some promote longterm stability more than others.

“you imply that you can coherently believe in a State without believing a Total State (a world government) would eventually rise and then a few sentences later claim ‘I think that world government is inevitable.’ ”
-Perhaps you should define your terms better. Had I answered differently you would have defined Total State as being a system run completely by a central system (i.e. communism in its truest form). This is not the the same as world government. If you did actually mean world government when you said Total State, then I change my answer to yes, I do support it. But I would bet dollars to donuts that you didn’t mean that when you first said the term.

“Where is government most optimal?”
-I’m glad you asked. Perhaps the first thing to move this discussion down the road rather than around the track. A federal democracy that is run by a parliamentary system is best. The central government should have a constitution with a Bill of Rights that supersedes all other laws. The constitution should have written in it limitations on the central government and a system of currency (I personally am a fan of paper backed by gold and banning the fractional reserve system, but I’d be open to other possibilities). They should have control over a small military (limited in scope by the constitution) and be in charge of settling disputes between Countries and deciding violations of the constitution (and therefore the bill of rights). This centralized government should be very, very limited, with nearly all authority aside from those previously mentioned delegated to the Countries. These Countries should be able to make any laws that don’t violate those of the central government, and should be able to have any type of government. They should not have the ability to form a military. And under no circumstances should they be allowed to control the flow of people. Therefore any government that is inefficient will find itself devoid of people and in perpetual decline. This incentivizes Countries to create more efficient forms of government. The ideal government for countries I think would be the same type of system, with more and more control being given to the government as it becomes more and more local.

“What makes you think [one group oppressing another] would even happen? The UNR SFL and Circle K are governmentless societies, neither of which oppress the other.”
-They legally cannot oppress one another. This applies to all of the entities you named. In the real world when groups can oppress one another, it sometimes happens. I hate having to spell things out, but since you misunderstood me ever other time, I will say this as clear as I can. I AM NOT SAYING THIS WILL HAPPEN IN EVERY INSTANCE, ONLY THAT THIS WILL HAPPEN IN SOME INSTANCES. Hopefully caps make it clearer to you, in ways repeating it apparently did not.

“And yet it all seems to hunky dory when the US sends troops to Iraq and Afghanistan and kills thousands of civilians and even journalists (on camera!) in the name of Democracy or Liberty or Human Rights or WMDs. Where is your outrage?”
-I find outrage better spend on trying to change things than simply complaining about them. Governments in their current state are under no laws. In essence the only system of anarchy currently to be seen can be observed by watching governments interact with one another (since I know you are going to misinterpret that statement, just act like I didn’t say it. This is why world government will be beneficial. It will stop this type of atrocity.

“The only reason we find “democracy” acceptable over “tyranny” is because the cost endured compared to the benefits is less in one than in the other.”
-The reason we find democracy more acceptable is that you can change democracy if you don’t approve of the way it is going. That said I think having a constitution and bill of rights superseding a government is infinitely more important than the type of ruling system.

I will say one more thing here before moving on. Coercion is always necessary. You say to people obey the rules or leave. This is true of anarchy as well. You will claim, “No, people have a right not to obey the laws put on them by society in an anarchy.” But they will be ostracized by the people (boycott or exile). Or they will be punished by the people (the lynchmob or “private protection” you talk about). In the end laws will always be enforced by coercion. How do you stop someone from stealing? You slap his hand. How do you stop someone from killing you? You kill him first.

“how do you keep coercers from overly-coercing citizens?”
-Ah yet another good question. They may be few and far between but the fact that they exist gives me hope. A federal system with strict rules governing it and keeping its power from growing (America went wrong from the beginning when it included the anything necessary clause). A parliamentary democracy with the ability to vote out people that are overly coercive. And a bill of rights that supersede more local laws.

“But you have still yet to prove why this apathy tax is better than no tax.”
-I’m not quite sure proof applies here, but taxes are better than the alternative because without taxes there is no way to stop one group from oppressing another. The only argument that you throw up is that oppression doesn’t always happen. This is as flimsy as the paper it is written on. The only question is whether or not you know that it is bullshit but keep it up to win the argument without a care of actually being correct, or whether you truly think this is a valid point. Its like saying, “What is the point of an umbrella? There are days when it doesn’t rain.”

“you make the extraordinarily strange claim that “the proper way to do government is to have the people with the power to oppress others robbed of the ability to do so.” Perhaps the confusion is merely on my end, but what exactly is that suppose to mean? If I understand you right it means that we’ll put some people A in charge of the military that protects B, but give B the power to control A (through some sort of means). Hence a president is elected by the people he reigns over.”
-I couldn’t think of a more perfect way to illustrate this than the President example. So basically, yea, thats right.

“I feel you need to fully answer at least one of the questions I have presented so far, perhaps starting at the beginning and explaining why some voluntary interactions shouldn’t be allowed. This is ultimately what the argument comes down to. In believing in the necessity of the State, you must believe that there are certain voluntary actions that people should not be allowed to do.”
-Not quite true. Its saying that there are involuntary interactions that should not be allowed. And that the only way to stop these involuntary actions is by coercion. In essence its not saying certain voluntary actions should not be allowed, its saying that some involuntary interactions must be forced to prevent more egregious involuntary interactions from being allowed.

If you understood nothing else that I said, I hope you understood that (well, ‘hope’ implies a degree of expectation, perhaps I should say, ‘wish’ instead)

I know I was a dick there for a lot of that but this I think that you deliberately tried to misunderstand my arguments. And after all of this, you still have not addressed any of the basic reasons I mentioned to doubt the feasibility of a coercionless state. If your next response is more whining and repetition, then I am done.

Keegan

Barry’s Third Response

Hello.

It is most unfortunate that you cannot see the obvious parallels between faith in a god and faith in a government. Hopefully I’m not beating a dead horse, but I feel this connection should be made apparent, as it seems that you find arguments for religion lacking, while finding your own arguments in favor of the necessity of a State utterly convincing. And it appears that if I can show you how intertwined the two ideas really are that there is the possibility I can convince you that coercing innocent people is not the best way to better the human condition.

First, however, I think it is best if we define our terms, in fact I believe you referred to this yourself. I have been up to this point assuming that our definition of a “State” was one and the same. This is quite clearly not the case. When I refer to a state I have taken as my definition (as mentioned in my lecture) the one by Rothbard wherein a State “as that institution which possesses one or both (almost always both) of the following properties: (1) it acquires its income by the physical coercion known as “taxation”; and (2) it asserts and usually obtains a coerced monopoly of the provision of defense service (police and courts) over a given territorial area. An institution not possessing either of these properties is not and cannot be, in accordance with my definition, a state.” From your letters it appears that you have slightly different in mind when you’re talking about a State. Since we’re treading the territory of anarchocapitalism it would probably be better for all involved to stick to Rothbard’s definition. Any other notion you have of a State should be placed by the wayside, at least for this conversation.

Second, I’d appreciate it if we could get on the same page about what we’re talking about. Rather than a point by point semi-refutation of my previous letter, I would have rather seen the overarching theme addressed. I said as much at the very end when I asked you why certain voluntary actions shouldn’t be allowed. That is, in my opinion, what this entire debate is about, as one cannot logically believe in the necessity of a State without also simultaneously believing that there are certain voluntary actions that some people should not be allowed to engage in. I really want to underscore the significance here, as it was given short shrift in your last response, so you’ll pardon me if I take this part slowly. What I am claiming is that if you believe in a State, it means you cannot believe all voluntary actions to be permissible. An action like “not paying your property tax” is punishable, even if someone doesn’t want to be part of a State (remember the Philadelphia farmer example?). As you’ve stated previously, you’re “pretty good at being able to see the argument from the other side,” so you should be able to “fill in the meat of the argument” yourself and see that there are hundreds and thousands of examples where States necessarily impinge upon the basic liberties of individuals, without any real reason. You kept claiming that it wasn’t that voluntary actions were being limited, but rather that involuntary ones were being prevented. But this simply isn’t true. What exactly is it about taxation that prevents injustice? How is a monopoly of defenses a better thing than a free market competition among defenses? Is one giant really better than twelve dwarfs? How can you tell?

Sorry, I feel as if I’m really giving that poor horse a lashing at this point, but I want to be clear. When you believe in a State you think it is okay to coerce innocent individuals. You seem to have it that a State merely punishes criminals. Yes, this is true, but so would an anarchist society. Anarchist police forces can arrest people just the same as State sanctioned ones the only difference is that when a private police force does something wrong *they* are actually punished for it. Do you really think there is any significant portion of a modern society that enjoys thieves and crooks and corrupt, inefficient cops in its company? No. Our brains were made to hate liars and criminals in our ancestral environment. What makes you think any society, anarchist or not, would tolerate high levels of criminality? It depresses me to hear when I discuss anarchism with people that they somehow equate it to barbarism and backwater days. It’s not like the internet disappears if government goes away. Nor does Wal-Mart. Planes don’t start falling out of the sky. What you feel when I say there should be no State is exactly what religious people say when someone says there is no god. I need to make you understand that.

Maybe it would do us some good to take a page from Sam Harris’s book and note that there are basically three ways that one can defend the necessity of a State: 1) argue that your specific State is the right one (as you have done with “A federal democracy that is run by a parliamentary system”); 2) or you argue that States are useful; or 3) you attack anarchism. The only argument that should be relevant at all in any discuss is the the first one. In it is a logical necessity that if one believes in liberal democracy one cannot also be a supporter of a communistic dictatorship. This much must be true. But this goes back to my original point in saying you are an anarchist to every government but your own. Before I address this first rationale, I’d just like to dismiss the other two right off the bat. Clearly attacking anarchy is not a form of promoting government. Even saying something like “anarchy will cause mass human suffering” is not evidence in favor of a State. It’s just like when creationists attack evolution to promote their views. This form of debate is never evidence in favor of the position one holds. One must present positive evidence in favor of one cherished theory, not just evidence against something else.

Also to argue that a State is useful will not always suffice, at least not directly. This is a subtle point of fact, but one which is all too often muddled. Saying “State A will make people more moral” or “State B gives people a high standard of living” is not enough to prove that either A or B should exist. This is directly related to tactics 1 and 3, as one must not only prove that a given State is better than anarchy (3) but also show that it is better than all other possibilities (1), and hence is the one correct State. You can clearly see that if I argue that a State should be put in place because it would easily allow me to become a famous movie actor, this would be an inadequate reason for the existence of coercion. I say, No, no, this State will be great, it will have defense services, and healthcare, and every actor that is not me will become unemployed and I will be the most sought after person in the country. What exactly is wrong with this reason for the usefulness of a State. I say States should exist to benefit my acting career, what is wrong with this? Certainly something is wrong. This implies that there are good and bad reasons for having a State. What are these reasons and how do they differ from a private anarchist version of society?

Perhaps this is why I have found your response lacking, if you’ll excuse me, you haven’t put forth any positive reason for the necessity of your particular State. In response to my asking “where government is most optimal” you went on at length about your form of a perfect government, but you didn’t say why all of your decisions were chosen why they were. You didn’t analyze your apparatus, and I’m afraid that I can’t see any rhyme or reason behind it on my own. As an example, I will now quote what you said in response altering the words slightly.

“A confederate republic that is run by a benevolent dictator is best. The central government should have a piece of paper with a Bunch of Rights that subservient to all other laws. The piece of paper should have written in it limitations on the central government and a system of currency (I personally am a fan of gold backed by paper and with a strong emphasis on the fractional reserve system, but I’d be open to other possibilities). They should have control over a large military (expanded in scope by the piece of paper) and be in charge of settling disputes between Countries and deciding violations of the piece of paper (and therefore the Bunch of Rights). This centralized government should be very, very large, with nearly all authority aside from those previously mentioned taken from the Countries. These Countries should be able to make any laws that don’t violate those of the central government, and should be able to have any type of government. They should totally have the ability to form a military. And under no circumstances should they be allowed to control the bowel movements of people. Therefore any government that is inefficient will find itself devoid of people and in perpetual decline. This incentivizes Countries to create more efficient forms of government. The ideal government for countries I think would be the same type of system, with less and less control being given to the government as it becomes more and more local.”

Hopefully you can see why I have such a hard time following your train of thought. The government you have put forth is devoid of all but a mechanical syntax. My satirizing of your proposal is not intended to be offense, but only to show that I am rightly unconvinced by what you have brought to the table so far. Why is a democracy better than a republic? A federal government better than a confederation? A small military better than a large one? I don’t mean to sound dense, however, I can see absolutely no reason why I should agree that coercing innocent people into things (such as taxes, military conscription, etc) is better than its opposite in what you have given me so far. I’m willing to be convinced that a government that has no control over the flows or bowel movements of its citizens is better than one that does, but you have to give me sufficient evidence and reasons that I should.

Now I suppose I can try to the YouTube style of conversation and respond to the slew of incidental points that have built up. However, I find such one-off criticisms to be a waste of nearly everybody’s time, I agreed to this conversation because I thought you would have substantive points to make that would be drawn out in well-thought out letters that kept its prose tight and its focus narrow. I ask that in future responses we do away with the quibbling back and forth about minor points and focus on the bigger issues. As I have criticized others in the past, you are not seeing the forest from the trees. So, in what follows I will attempt to clean up a few misconceptions and miscellanea in a rapid fire sequence.

- When I said “Total State” it was clear from context that I had meant a worldwide government. If you back to my first response, its meaning can quite easily be seen from context. I would ask that we attempt to do this from now on: obtain meaning from context. Yes, we are probably going to throw around a whole bunch of words with a whole bunch of meanings and weighed down by eons of history. If this is the case, and we feel we might be misunderstood, I suggest we take the time to define our terms.

- I asked you for examples where voluntary actions necessarily devolved into chaos without coercive intervention against innocent people and quite brusquely disregarded it. This is quite an important criticism, one which I pointed at a lot in my previous response, but one which never received an adequate response from you, and hence bears repeating. In my support of anarchocapitalism I put forth the claim that voluntary actions can be self-regulating. Bad behavior can be squashed and good behavior can be promoted, just like in the free and open market. Anarchy doesn’t mean criminals get a pass by saying “you know what, I’m not a part of your society, therefore I can kill one of your citizens.” No one, and I mean No One, would ever agree that such a society promotes well-being. Criminals would be punished under anarchism just as under a State. What an anarchocapitalist society does not allow (unlike a State) is the legal possibility of coercion against innocent people or their property. What exactly is so bad with the idea that innocent people shouldn’t be terrorized by coercive overlords?

- I feel you aren’t actually listening to my arguments all the way through and are instead criticizing at the sentence by sentence level. This causes you to be confused about points which have already been covered at length previously. Since I do not wish to be misunderstood, this forces me to repeat a point again and again (such as the fact that it is coercion against innocent people I have a problem with, not “coercion” against criminals). As I said before delving into this minor-point-escapade, this leads to you not seeing the forest from the trees. We should let one another’s arguments simmer and marinate in our minds for awhile before responding. You’ll notice that I have given your arguments due consideration and often given them days of critical thinking, the same cannot be said of your near instantaneous responses.

There are surely a few other minor points that could be addressed, but let us not quibble.

I am concerned about a point you brought up “without taxes there is no way to stop one group from oppressing another.” As with your description of the Perfect State I was looking forward to an explanation of why this should be so, but was left wanting. Why is it that taxes are required to stop someone from oppressing another? I don’t see the justification between stealing money from innocent people and protecting someone (presumably with that money). You may recall the YMCA radio example from my lecture. There are certainly others. One could certainly rationalize stealing a whole slew of things/money to spend on things we feel people need, in fact, this is what we see with much of State funding. But the question always remains, how can an institution with no incentive to spend money efficiently because it can “legitimately” steal it better than one that must rely upon customer satisfaction and delivering the best products at the cheapest rates? I fail, utterly fail, to see how we should trust a thief in one domain more than a thief in another. From basic economic theory to hifalutin ethics we can see that sharing (spending money) with those who voluntarily consent to such an agreement is much better than trying to reason with a wasteful crook. I claim that voluntary actions when compared to their counterpart in actions based upon violence or the threat of violence are always better and produce better results. And please don’t, as I feel you might, misunderstand me: these are actions such as trade and social interactions, not rapists who don’t want to stand trial. When I speak of actions between individuals, I always have innocent individuals in mind. Criminals are criminals and have already violated one of the two basic premises of libertarianism (as presented in the lecture and elsewhere)…they are not entitled to the same liberties as those that have not violated these principles. My claim is not that an anarchist police force wouldn’t have the ability to go out an arrest somebody, rather that if that police force happen to hurt an innocent person would be held accountable for it (unlike current police forces which are almost entirely above the law).

Hopefully this clears up much of the confusion you have had about this argument. Just looking at your last paragraph “you still have not addressed any of the basic reasons I mentioned to doubt the feasibility of a coercionless state” shows quite simply that you and I were not talking about the same thing. A coercionless state? There’s no such thing. And I’m not even talking about a coercionless state. I’m talking about NO State at all. That is a State by the definition I have been using this entire time (from my lecture) and now presented in this letter. As such I feel I have addressed a great many of your concerns (after all your “biggest objection [was] in-group out-group mentality” which I spent the entire first letter discussing), though you seem to keep changing the target of your “objections.” I would like you to remember the Parable of the Pawnbroker and see it from my perspective now. You present an argument, I address it, and you move on to an entirely new one as if your old one didn’t matter. Your treatment of IG/OG mentality is a perfect example.

So in closing so that I’m not misunderstood: force can be legitimately used in an anarchist society, just not against innocent people.

Please don’t let me be misunderstood,
Barry

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A Society Without a State
By: Barry Belmont

This is an article written by Murray N. Rothbard. How one could fail to join the anarchist side of the debate after listening to him is beyond me. Please do enjoy.

A Society Without a State

In attempting to outline how a “society without a state” – that is, an anarchist society – might function successfully, I would first like to defuse two common but mistaken criticisms of this approach. First, is the argument that in providing for such defense or protection services as courts, police, or even law itself, I am simply smuggling the state back into society in another form, and that therefore the system I am both analyzing and advocating is not “really” anarchism.

This sort of criticism can only involve us in an endless and arid dispute over semantics. Let me say from the beginning that I define the state as that institution which possesses one or both (almost always both) of the following properties: (1) it acquires its income by the physical coercion known as “taxation”; and (2) it asserts and usually obtains a coerced monopoly of the provision of defense service (police and courts) over a given territorial area. An institution not possessing either of these properties is not and cannot be, in accordance with my definition, a state.

On the other hand, I define anarchist society as one where there is no legal possibility for coercive aggression against the person or property of an individual. Anarchists oppose the state because it has its very being in such aggression, namely, the expropriation of private property through taxation, the coercive exclusion of other providers of defense service from its territory, and all of the other depredations and coercions that are built upon these twin foci of invasions of individual rights.

Nor is our definition of the state arbitrary, for these two characteristics have been possessed by what is generally acknowledged to be states throughout recorded history. The state, by its use of physical coercion, has arrogated to itself a compulsory monopoly of defense services over its territorial jurisdiction. But it is certainly conceptually possible for such services to be supplied by private, non-state institutions, and indeed such services have historically been supplied by other organizations than the state. To be opposed to the state is then not necessarily to be opposed to services that have often been linked with it; to be opposed to the state does not necessarily imply that we must be opposed to police protection, courts, arbitration, the minting of money, postal service, or roads and highways. Some anarchists have indeed been opposed to police and to all physical coercion in defense of person and property, but this is not inherent in and is fundamentally irrelevant to the anarchist position, which is precisely marked by opposition to all physical coercion invasive of, or aggressing against, person and property.

The crucial role of taxation may be seen in the fact that the state is the only institution or organization in society which regularly and systematically acquires its income through the use of physical coercion. All other individuals or organizations acquire their income voluntarily, either (1) through the voluntary sale of goods and services to consumers on the market, or (2) through voluntary gifts or donations by members or other donors. If I cease or refrain from purchasing Wheaties on the market, the Wheaties producers do not come after me with a gun or the threat of imprisonment to force me to purchase; if I fail to join the American Philosophical Association, the association may not force me to join or prevent me from giving up my membership. Only the state can do so; only the state can confiscate my property or put me in jail if I do not pay its tax tribute. Therefore, only the state regularly exists and has its very being by means of coercive depredations on private property.

Neither is it legitimate to challenge this sort of analysis by claiming that in some other sense, the purchase of Wheaties or membership in the APA is in some way “coercive.” Anyone who is still unhappy with this use of the term “coercion” can simply eliminate the word from this discussion and substitute for it “physical violence or the threat thereof,” with the only loss being in literary style rather than in the substance of the argument. What anarchism proposes to do, then, is to abolish the state, that is, to abolish the regularized institution of aggressive coercion.

It need hardly be added that the state habitually builds upon its coercive source of income by adding a host of other aggressions upon society, ranging from economic controls to the prohibition of pornography to the compelling of religious observance to the mass murder of civilians in organized warfare. In short, the state, in the worlds of Albert Jay Nock, “claims and exercises a monopoly of crime” over its territorial area.

The second criticism I would like to defuse before beginning the main body of the paper is the common charge that anarchists “assume that all people are good” and that without the state no crime would be committed. In short, that anarchism assumes that with the abolition of the state a New Anarchist Man will emerge, cooperative, humane, and benevolent, so that no problem of crime will then plague the society. I confess that I do not understand the basis for this charge. Whatever other schools of anarchism profess – and I do not believe that they are open to the charge – I certainly do not adopt this view. I assume with most observers that mankind is a mixture of good and evil, of cooperative and criminal tendencies.

In my view, the anarchist society is one which maximizes the tendencies for the good and the cooperative, while it minimizes both the opportunity and the moral legitimacy of the evil and the criminal. If the anarchist view is correct and the state is indeed the great legalized and socially legitimated channel for all manner of antisocial crime – theft, oppression, mass murder – on a massive scale, then surely the abolition of such an engine of crime can do nothing but favor the good in man and discourage the bad.

A further point: in a profound sense, no social system, whether anarchist or statist, can work at all unless most people are “good” in the sense that they are not all hell-bent upon assaulting and robbing their neighbors. If everyone were so disposed, no amount of protection, whether state or private, could succeed in staving off chaos. Furthermore, the more that people are disposed to be peaceful and not aggress against their neighbors, the more successfully any social system will work, and the fewer resources will need to be devoted to police protection. The anarchist view holds that, given the “nature of man,” given the degree of goodness or badness at any point in time, anarchism will maximize the opportunities for the good and minimize the channels for the bad. The rest depends on the values held by the individual members of society. The only further point that needs to be made is that by eliminating the living example and the social legitimacy of the massive legalized crime of the state, anarchism will to a large extent promote peaceful values in the minds of the public.

We cannot of course deal here with the numerous arguments in favor of anarchism or against the state, moral, political, and economic. Nor can we take up the various goods and services now provided by the state and show how private individuals and groups will be able to supply them far more efficiently on the free market. Here we can only deal with perhaps the most difficult area, the area where it is almost universally assumed that the state must exist and act, even if it is only a “necessary evil” instead of a positive good: the vital realm of defense or protection of person and property against aggression. Surely, it is universally asserted, the state is at least vitally necessary to provide police protection, the judicial resolution of disputes and enforcement of contracts, and the creation of the law itself that is to be enforced. My contention is that all of these admittedly necessary services of protection can be satisfactorily and efficiently supplied by private persons and institutions on the free market.

One important caveat before we begin the body of this paper: new proposals such as anarchism are almost always gauged against the implicit assumption that the present, or statist system works to perfection. Any lacunae or difficulties with the picture of the anarchist society are considered net liabilities, and enough to dismiss anarchism out of hand. It is, in short, implicitly assumed that the state is doing its self-assumed job of protecting person and property to perfection. We cannot here go into the reasons why the state is bound to suffer inherently from grave flaws and inefficiencies in such a task. All we need do now is to point to the black and unprecedented record of the state through history: no combination of private marauders can possibly begin to match the state’s unremitting record of theft, confiscation, oppression, and mass murder. No collection of Mafia or private bank robbers can begin to compare with all the Hiroshimas, Dresdens, and Lidices and their analogues through the history of mankind.

This point can be made more philosophically: it is illegitimate to compare the merits of anarchism and statism by starting with the present system as the implicit given and then critically examining only the anarchist alternative. What we must do is to begin at the zero point and then critically examine both suggested alternatives. Suppose, for example, that we were all suddenly dropped down on the earth de novo and that we were all then confronted with the question of what societal arrangements to adopt. And suppose then that someone suggested: “We are all bound to suffer from those of us who wish to aggress against their fellow men. Let us then solve this problem of crime by handing all of our weapons to the Jones family, over there, by giving all of our ultimate power to settle disputes to that family. In that way, with their monopoly of coercion and of ultimate decision making, the Jones family will be able to protect each of us from each other.” I submit that this proposal would get very short shrift, except perhaps from the Jones family themselves. And yet this is precisely the common argument for the existence of the state. When we start from zero point, as in the case of the Jones family, the question of “who will guard the guardians?” becomes not simply an abiding lacuna in the theory of the state but an overwhelming barrier to its existence.

A final caveat: the anarchist is always at a disadvantage in attempting to forecast the shape of the future anarchist society. For it is impossible for observers to predict voluntary social arrangements, including the provision of goods and services, on the free market. Suppose, for example, that this were the year 1874 and that someone predicted that eventually there would be a radio-manufacturing industry. To be able to make such a forecast successfully, does he have to be challenged to state immediately how many radio manufacturers there would be a century hence, how big they would be, where they would be located, what technology and marketing techniques they would use, and so on? Obviously, such a challenge would make no sense, and in a profound sense the same is true of those who demand a precise portrayal of the pattern of protection activities on the market. Anarchism advocates the dissolution of the state into social and market arrangements, and these arrangements are far more flexible and less predictable than political institutions. The most that we can do, then, is to offer broad guidelines and perspectives on the shape of a projected anarchist society.

One important point to make here is that the advance of modern technology makes anarchistic arrangements increasingly feasible. Take, for example, the case of lighthouses, where it is often charged that it is unfeasible for private lighthouse operators to row out to each ship to charge it for use of the light. Apart from the fact that this argument ignores the successful existence of private lighthouses in earlier days, as in England in the eighteenth century, another vital consideration is that modern electronic technology makes charging each ship for the light far more feasible. Thus, the ship would have to have paid for an electronically controlled beam which could then be automatically turned on for those ships which had paid for the service.

Let us turn now to the problem of how disputes – in particular disputes over alleged violations of person and property – would be resolved in an anarchist society. First, it should be noted that all disputes involve two parties: the plaintiff, the alleged victim of the crime or tort and the defendant, the alleged aggressor. In many cases of broken contract, of course, each of the two parties alleging that the other is the culprit is at the same time a plaintiff and a defendant.

An important point to remember is that any society, be it statist or anarchist, has to have some way of resolving disputes that will gain a majority consensus in society. There would be no need for courts or arbitrators if everyone were omniscient and knew instantaneously which persons were guilty of any given crime or violation of contract. Since none of us is omniscient, there has to be some method of deciding who is the criminal or lawbreaker which will gain legitimacy; in short, whose decision will be accepted by the great majority of the public.

In the first place, a dispute may be resolved voluntarily between the two parties themselves, either unaided or with the help of a third mediator. This poses no problem, and will automatically be accepted by society at large. It is so accepted even now, much less in a society imbued with the anarchistic values of peaceful cooperation and agreement. Secondly and similarly, the two parties, unable to reach agreement, may decide to submit voluntarily to the decision of an arbitrator. This agreement may arise either after a dispute has arisen, or be provided for in advance in the original contract. Again, there is no problem in such an arrangement gaining legitimacy. Even in the present statist era, the notorious inefficiency and coercive and cumbersome procedures of the politically run government courts has led increasing numbers of citizens to turn to voluntary and expert arbitration for a speedy and harmonious settling of disputes.

Thus, William C. Wooldridge has written that

Arbitration has grown to proportions that make the courts a secondary recourse in many areas and completely superfluous in others. The ancient fear of the courts that arbitration would “oust” them of their jurisdiction has been fulfilled with a vengeance the common-law judges probably never anticipated. Insurance companies adjust over fifty thousand claims a year among themselves through arbitration, and the American Arbitration Association (AAA), with headquarters in New York and twenty-five regional offices across the country, last year conducted over twenty-two thousand arbitrations. Its twenty-three thousand associates available to serve as arbitrators may outnumber the total number of judicial personnel … in the United States…. Add to this the unknown number of individuals who arbitrate disputes within particular industries or in particular localities, without formal AAA affiliation, and the quantitatively secondary role of official courts begins to be apparent.

Wooldridge adds the important point that, in addition to the speed of arbitration procedures vis-à-vis the courts, the arbitrators can proceed as experts in disregard of the official government law; in a profound sense, then, they serve to create a voluntary body of private law. “In other words,” states Wooldridge, “the system of extralegal, voluntary courts has progressed hand in hand with a body of private law; the rules of the state are circumvented by the same process that circumvents the forums established for the settlement of disputes over those rules…. In short, a private agreement between two people, a bilateral ‘law,’ has supplanted the official law. The writ of the sovereign has ceased to run, and for it is substituted a rule tacitly or explicitly agreed to by the parties.” Wooldridge concludes that “if an arbitrator can choose to ignore a penal damage rule or the status of limitations applicable to the claim before him (and it is generally conceded that he has that power), arbitration can be viewed as a practically revolutionary instrument for self-liberation from the law….”

It may be objected that arbitration only works successfully because the courts enforce the award of the arbitrator. Wooldridge points out, however, that arbitration was unenforceable in the American courts before 1920, but that this did not prevent voluntary arbitration from being successful and expanding in the United States and in England. He points, furthermore, to the successful operations of merchant courts since the Middle Ages, those courts which successfully developed the entire body of the law merchant. None of those courts possessed the power of enforcement. He might have added the private courts of shippers which developed the body of admiralty law in a similar way.

How then did these private, “anarchistic,” and voluntary courts ensure the acceptance of their decisions? By the method of social ostracism, and by the refusal to deal any further with the offending merchant. This method of voluntary “enforcement,” indeed provided highly successful. Wooldridge writes that “the merchants’ courts were voluntary, and if a man ignored their judgment, he could not be sent to jail…. Nevertheless, it is apparent that … [their] decisions were generally respected even by the losers; otherwise people would never have used them in the first place…. Merchants made their courts work simply by agreeing to abide by the results. The merchant who broke the understanding would not be sent to jail, to be sure, but neither would he long continue to be a merchant, for the compliance exacted by his fellows … provide if anything more effective than physical coercion.” Nor did this voluntary method fail to work in modern times. Wooldridge writes that it was precisely in the years before 1920, when arbitration awards could not be enforced in the courts,

that arbitration caught on and developed a following in the American mercantile community. Its popularity, gained at a time when abiding by an agreement to arbitrate had to be as voluntary as the agreement itself, casts doubt on whether legal coercion was an essential adjunct to the settlement of most disputes. Cases of refusal to abide by an arbitrator’s award were rare; one founder of the American Arbitration Association could not recall a single example. Like their medieval forerunners, merchants in the Americas did not have to rely on any sanctions other than those they could collectively impose on each other. One who refused to pay up might find access to his association’s tribunal cut off in the future, or his name released to the membership of his trade association; these penalties were far more fearsome than the cost of the award with which he disagreed. Voluntary and private adjudications were voluntarily and privately adhered to, if not out of honor, out of the self-interest of businessmen who knew that the arbitral mode of dispute settlement would cease to be available to them very quickly if they ignored an award.

It should also be pointed out that modern technology makes even more feasible the collection and dissemination of information about people’s credit ratings and records of keeping or violating their contracts or arbitration agreements. Presumably, an anarchist society would see the expansion of this sort of dissemination of data and thereby facilitate the ostracism or boycotting of contract and arbitration violators.

How would arbitrators be selected in an anarchist society? In the same way as they are chosen now, and as they were chosen in the days of strictly voluntary arbitration: the arbitrators with the best reputation for efficiency and probity would be chosen by the various parties on the market. As in other processes of the market, the arbitrators with the best record in settling disputes will come to gain an increasing amount of business, and those with poor records will no longer enjoy clients and will have to shift to another line of endeavor. Here it must be emphasized that parties in dispute will seek out those arbitrators with the best reputation for both expertise and impartiality and that inefficient or biased arbitrators will rapidly have to find another occupation.

Thus, the Tannehills emphasize:

the advocates of government see initiated force (the legal force of government) as the only solution to social disputes. According to them, if everyone in society were not forced to use the same court system … disputes would be insoluble. Apparently it doesn’t occur to them that disputing parties are capable of freely choosing their own arbiters…. they have not realized that disputants would, in fact, be far better off if they could choose among competing arbitration agencies so that they could reap the benefits of competition and specialization. It should be obvious that a court system which has a monopoly guaranteed by the force of statutory law will not give as good quality service as will free-market arbitration agencies which must compete for their customers….

Perhaps the least tenable argument for government arbitration of disputes is the one which holds that governmental judges are more impartial because they operate outside the market and so have no vested interests…. Owning political allegiance to government is certainly no guarantee of impartiality! A governmental judge is always impelled to be partial – in favor of the government, from whom he gets his pay and his power! On the other hand, an arbiter who sells his services in a free market knows that he must be as scrupulously honest, fair, and impartial as possible or no pair of disputants will buy his services to arbitrate their dispute. A free-market arbiter depends for his livelihood on his skill and fairness at settling disputes. A governmental judge depends on political pull.

If desired, furthermore, the contracting parties could provide in advance for a series of arbitrators:

It would be more economical and in most cases quite sufficient to have only one arbitration agency to hear the case. But if the parties felt that a further appeal might be necessary and were willing to risk the extra expense, they could provide for a succession of two or even more arbitration agencies. The names of these agencies would be written into the contract in order from the “first court of appeal” to the “last court of appeal.” It would be neither necessary nor desirable to have one single, final court of appeal for every person in the society, as we have today in the United States Supreme Court.

Arbitration, then, poses little difficulty for a portrayal of the free society. But what of torts or crimes of aggression where there has been no contract? Or suppose that the breaker of a contract defies the arbitration award? Is ostracism enough? In short, how can courts develop in the free-market anarchist society which will have the power to enforce judgments against criminals or contract breakers?

In the wide sense, defense service consists of guards or police who use force in defending person and property against attack, and judges or courts whose role is to use socially accepted procedures to determine who the criminals or tortfeasors are, as well as to enforce judicial awards, such as damages or the keeping of contracts. On the free market, many scenarios are possible on the relationship between the private courts and the police; they may be “vertically integrated,” for example, or their services may be supplied by separate firms. Furthermore, it seems likely that police service will be supplied by insurance companies who will provide crime insurance to their clients. In that case, insurance companies will pay off the victims of crime or the breaking of contracts or arbitration awards and then pursue the aggressors in court to recoup their losses. There is a natural market connection between insurance companies and defense service, since they need pay out less benefits in proportion as they are able to keep down the rate of crime.

Courts might either charge fees for their services, with the losers of cases obliged to pay court costs, or else they may subsist on monthly or yearly premiums by their clients, who may be either individuals or the police or insurance agencies. Suppose, for example, that Smith is an aggrieved party, either because he has been assaulted or robbed, or because an arbitration award in his favor has not been honored. Smith believes that Jones is the party guilty of the crime. Smith then goes to a court, Court A, of which he is a client, and brings charges against Jones as a defendant. In my view, the hallmark of an anarchist society is one where no man may legally compel someone who is not a convicted criminal to do anything, since that would be aggression against an innocent man’s person or property. Therefore, Court A can only invite rather than subpoena Jones to attend his trial. Of course, if Jones refused to appear or send a representative, his side of the case will not be heard. The trial of Jones proceeds. Suppose that Court A finds Jones innocent. In my view, part of the generally accepted law code of the anarchist society (on which see further below) is that this must end the matter unless Smith can prove charges of gross incompetence or bias on the part of the court.

Suppose, next, that Court A finds Jones guilty. Jones might accept the verdict, because he too is a client of the same court, because he knows he is guilty, or for some other reason. In that case, Court A proceeds to exercise judgment against Jones. Neither of these instances poses very difficult problems for our picture of the anarchist society. But suppose, instead, that Jones contests the decision; he then goes to his court, Court B, and the case is retried there. Suppose that Court B, too, finds Jones guilty. Again, it seems to me that the accepted law code of the anarchist society will assert that this ends the matter; both parties have had their say in courts which each has selected, and the decision for guilt is unanimous.

Suppose, however, the most difficult case: that Court B finds Jones innocent. The two courts, each subscribed to by one of the two parties, have split their verdicts. In that case, the two courts will submit the case to an appeals court, or arbitrator, which the two courts agree upon. There seems to be no real difficulty about the concept of an appeals court. As in the case of arbitration contracts, it seems very likely that the various private courts in the society will have prior agreements to submit their disputes to a particular appeals court. How will the appeals judges be chosen? Again, as in the case of arbitrators or of the first judges on the free market, they will be chosen for their expertise and their reputation for efficiency, honesty, and integrity. Obviously, appeals judges who are inefficient or biased will scarcely be chosen by courts who will have a dispute. The point here is that there is no need for a legally established or institutionalized single, monopoly appeals court system, as states now provide. There is no reason why there cannot arise a multitude of efficient and honest appeals judges who will be selected by the disputant courts, just as there are numerous private arbitrators on the market today. The appeals court renders its decision, and the courts proceed to enforce it if, in our example, Jones is considered guilty – unless, of course, Jones can prove bias in some other court proceedings.

No society can have unlimited judicial appeals, for in that case there would be no point to having judges or courts at all. Therefore, every society, whether statist or anarchist, will have to have some socially accepted cutoff point for trials and appeals. My suggestion is the rule that the agreement of any two courts, be decisive. “Two” is not an arbitrary figure, for it reflects the fact that there are two parties, the plaintiff and the defendant, to any alleged crime or contract dispute.

If the courts are to be empowered to enforce decision against guilty parties, does this not bring back the state in another form and thereby negate anarchism? No, for at the beginning of this paper I explicitly defined anarchism in such a way as not to rule out the use of defensive force – force in defense of person and property – by privately supported agencies. In the same way, it is not bringing back the state to allow persons to use force to defend themselves against aggression, or to hire guards or police agencies to defend them.

It should be noted, however, that in the anarchist society there will be no “district attorney” to press charges on behalf of “society.” Only the victims will press charges as the plaintiffs. If, then, these victims should happen to be absolute pacifists who are opposed even to defensive force, then they will simply not press charges in the courts or otherwise retaliate against those who have aggressed against them. In a free society that would be their right. If the victim should suffer from murder, then his heir would have the right to press the charges.

What of the Hatfield-and-McCoy problem? Suppose that a Hatfield kills a McCoy, and that McCoy’s heir does not belong to a private insurance, police agency, or court, and decides to retaliate himself? Since under anarchism there can be no coercion of the noncriminal, McCoy would have the perfect right to do so. No one may be compelled to bring his case to a court. Indeed, since the right to hire police or courts flows form the right of self-defense against aggression, it would be inconsistent and in contradiction to the very basis of the free society to institute such compulsion.

Suppose, then, that the surviving McCoy finds what he believes to be the guilty Hatfield and kills him in turn? What then? This is fine, except that McCoy may have to worry about charges being brought against him by a surviving Hatfield. Here it must be emphasized that in the law of the anarchist society based on defense against aggression, the courts would not be able to proceed against McCoy if in fact he killed the right Hatfield. His problem would arise if the courts should find that he made a grievous mistake and killed the wrong man; in that case, he in turn would be found guilty of murder. Surely, in most instances, individuals will wish to obviate such problems by taking their case to a court and thereby gain social acceptability for their defensive retaliation – not for the act of retaliation but for the correctness of deciding who the criminal in any given case might be. The purpose of the judicial process, indeed, is to find a way of general agreement on who might be the criminal or contract breaker in any given case. The judicial process is not a good in itself; thus, in the case of an assassination, such as Jack Ruby’s murder of Lee Harvey Oswald, on public television, there is no need for a complex judicial process, since the name of the murderer is evident to all.

Will not the possibility exist of a private court that may turn venal and dishonest, or of a private police force that turns criminal and extorts money by coercion? Of course such an event may occur, given the propensities of human nature. Anarchism is not a moral cure-all. But the important point is that market forces exist to place severe checks on such possibilities, especially in contrast to a society where a state exists. For, in the first place, judges, like arbitrators, will prosper on the market in proportion to their reputation for efficiency and impartiality. Secondly, on the free market important checks and balances exist against venal courts or criminal police forces. Namely, that there are competing courts and police agencies to whom victims may turn for redress. If the “Prudential Police Agency” should turn outlaw and extract revenue from victims by coercion, the latter would have the option of turning to the “Mutual” or “Equitable” Police Agency for defense and for pressing charges against Prudential. These are the genuine “checks and balances” of the free market, genuine in contrast to the phony check and balances of a state system, where all the alleged “balancing” agencies are in the hands of one monopoly government. Indeed, given the monopoly “protection service” of a state, what is there to prevent a state from using its monopoly channels of coercion to extort money from the public? What are the checks and limits of the state? None, except for the extremely difficult course of revolution against a power with all of the guns in its hands. In fact, the state provides an easy, legitimated channel for crime and aggression, since it has its very being in the crime of tax theft, and the coerced monopoly of “protection.” It is the state, indeed, that functions as a mighty “protection racket” on a giant and massive scale. It is the state that says: “Pay us for your ‘protection’ or else.” In the light of the massive and inherent activities of the state, the danger of a “protection racket” emerging from one or more private police agencies is relatively small indeed.

Moreover, it must be emphasized that a crucial element in the power of the state is its legitimacy in the eyes of the majority of the public, the fact that after centuries of propaganda, the depredations of the state are looked upon rather as benevolent services. Taxation is generally not seen as theft, nor war as mass murder, nor conscription as slavery. Should a private police agency turn outlaw, should “Prudential” become a protection racket, it would then lack the social legitimacy which the state has managed to accrue to itself over the centuries. “Prudential” would be seen by all as bandits, rather than as legitimate or divinely appointed “sovereigns” bent on promoting the “common good” or the “general welfare.” And lacking such legitimacy, “Prudential” would have to face the wrath of the public and the defense and retaliation of the other private defense agencies, the police and courts, on the free market. Given these inherent checks and limits, a successful transformation from a free society to bandit rule becomes most unlikely. Indeed, historically, it has been very difficult for a state to arise to supplant a stateless society; usually, it has come about through external conquest rather than by evolution from within a society.

Within the anarchist camp, there has been much dispute on whether the private courts would have to be bound by a basic, common law code. Ingenious attempts have been made to work out a system where the laws or standards of decision-making by the courts would differ completely from one to another. But in my view all would have to abide by the basic law code, in particular, prohibition of aggression against person and property, in order to fulfill our definition of anarchism as a system which provides no legal sanction for such aggression. Suppose, for example, that one group of people in society holds that all redheads are demons who deserve to be shot on sight. Suppose that Jones, one of this group, shoots Smith, a redhead. Suppose that Smith or his heir presses charges in a court, but that Jones’s court, in philosophic agreement with Jones, finds him innocent therefore. It seems to me that in order to be considered legitimate, any court would have to follow the basic libertarian law code of the inviolate right of person and property. For otherwise, courts might legally subscribe to a code which sanctions such aggression in various cases, and which to that extent would violate the definition of anarchism and introduce, if not the state, then a strong element of statishness or legalized aggression into the society.

But again I see no insuperable difficulties here. For in that case, anarchists, in agitating for their creed, will simply include in their agitation the idea of a general libertarian law code as part and parcel of the anarchist creed of abolition of legalized aggression against person or property in the society.

In contrast to the general law code, other aspects of court decisions could legitimately vary in accordance with the market or the wishes of the clients; for example, the language the cases will be conducted in, the number of judges to be involved, and so on.

There are other problems of the basic law code which there is no time to go into here: for example, the definition of just property titles or the question of legitimate punishment of convicted offenders – though the latter problem of course exists in statist legal systems as well. The basic point, however, is that the state is not needed to arrive at legal principles or their elaboration: indeed, much of the common law, the law merchant, admiralty law, and private law in general, grew up apart from the state, by judges not making the law but finding it on the basis of agreed-upon principles derived either from custom or reason. The idea that the state is needed to make law is as much a myth as that the state is needed to supply postal or police services.

Enough has been said here, I believe, to indicate that an anarchist system for settling disputes would be both viable and self-subsistent: that once adopted, it could work and continue indefinitely. How to arrive at that system is of course a very different problem, but certainly at the very least it will not likely come about unless people are convinced of its workability, are convinced, in short, that the state is not a necessary evil.

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AnarchoDebates: Barry v. Keegan 2
By: Barry Belmont

Keegan’s Second Email

I don’t know why I didn’t get your email, but if the nets screw up your next response, I’ll let you know a bit earlier (well, I’ll just post something on UNRforliberty after about a week).

Wow there is a lot there for such a small scope of discussion, but I will try to be concise as possible.

I only mentioned Creationism to point out that I am unwilling to read enormous numbers of other books. But if you want to argue along those lines, I see the point of your argument but it does not apply (at least not in the same way). Creationism is about what is (or was). This philosophical discussion of governance is about what should be. I don’t doubt that you could feasibly have an anarchist community for a while. The question is what type of place will it be, and what will it eventually become. For example, if a creationist argued with me about the effect of having each type of belief, that would be an argument that is not based on faith (despite usually being based on bull shit but thats a whole different story).

Perhaps you can understand the way I feel about being an “anarchist to every other government but [my] own” were I to explain it like this. Different governments are not mutually exclusive. If America is real, that does not mean that Egypt is not. This is not true with religions. Its not that other governments exist, its just that I don’t accept their authority over me. In much the same way, every business has its own set of internal rules, and its own governing board. But the only ones that have authority over me would be the ones I work for.

“how can one coherently believe in a State without believing there should be a Total State?”
-Easy. There are some things that the State is better at doing, and there are some things that free peoples making their own decisions are better at doing. For example, I think the state is better at dispensing justice. I think that the State is better at protecting peoples freedoms. That type of thing (there are others but since they are on shakier ground I think we should hash out the details on them after addressing the validity of the State).

The reason I mentioned IG/OG is to say that people are not necessarily moral. I agree with you completely that opinions are fine until they become used as a form of coercion. The question is, how does a governmentless society deal with one group oppressing another?

I don’t claim that IG/OG will necessarily lead to violence, but I do claim that such divisions will often undermine morality. This is a specific attack on the claim that people are nearly always moral. This is not saying that IG/OG mentality will always lead to immorality.

The two accounts of this argument being used against government: 1) The governed and governing generally do split into two groups where the governing try to oppress the governed. This is why specific types of governments are better than others, primarily in their ability to prevent this. 2) This is also a problem. One in which there is no easy answer. Governments do have IG/OG mentality against each other, and often use this to oppress one another. For this reason, I think that world government is inevitable (either that or global annihilation). We have global laws and courts already, but they have no teeth. Since they do not have the ability to coerce anyone, they are largely ignored (hopefully you see where this line of reasoning leads).

As far as the military turning on us: you forget that the military is formed of people. These people identify more strongly with other Americans than they do with the military. If the leaders of the military tried to become oppressive, the individuals that form the military would turn on them. That said, this is a constant fear as military coups are not uncommon.

The proper way to do government is to have the people with the power to oppress others robbed of the ability to do so. Our system is not the best, but it does have some qualities that make it better than others. If any of the ruling class begin to oppress the others, they are voted out. If any of the courts start stop dispensing justice, they are removed (either by other courts or by the voting population). If the military becomes oppressive, it will fracture plus gun ownership would make actually conquering America difficult (but I don’t think a standing army would exist in an ideal State). Ideally states were able to make nearly all of the rules. This allowed people to leave to governments that had better rules.

Keegan

Barry’s Second Response

Hello.

You seemed to have misunderstood why I brought up the analogy between your belief in the necessity of a State and the creationist’s belief in the necessity of a god or gods. You attempted to side step the whole issue by saying that creationism is about what is and your belief in a State is about what should be, but that’s just sort of a red herring: you believe in the attributes of the world A, B, C, and you believe in the attributes of a State 1, 2, 3 and you say because A, B, C, therefore a State (which can do 1, 2, 3) is necessary. It’s quite equivalent to someone claiming that the world is too complex therefore a god must be called upon to explain it. Simply because someone cannot think of how a universe could come about in the absence of a deity does not mean it cannot. Similarly, just because you cannot imagine a society without a State does not mean it is not possible. You are, when you make a claim about what “should be” necessarily making a claim on the way the world works. You’re saying the world works like this and thus we can use this to produce that result. There is no difference between the ought and the is in this case (consider my article on the website for a further elucidation on “ought from is”).

The main assumption that seems to underlie your entire position is that you can’t imagine order in the absence of a State, you can’t imagine a coherent moral structure in society without coercion. But this is an argument that is lifted nearly directly from the stand Christian Retorts Handbook that holds that people simply couldn’t be moral without a god. Indeed, they claim, if there is no god, then everything is permitted (a la Dostoevsky). But anyone who’s given the nature of morality even the slightest bit of critical thought sees this as hollow as it is. The obvious response is “Is the only reason you don’t kill, steal, and rape because you think there is a god watching?” If they say yes, then we should rightly dismiss them for horribly backwardass opinions in matters of morality. If the only reason a Christian (or a Jew or a worshipper of Ra) has any qualms about slitting my throat is because he thinks there’s an eye in the sky that might catch him, then we can say that his position is a weak one and what he thinks about matters of morality should be held suspect. I mean this with no offense, but I see the exact same logic at work in your argument. You hold that people simply couldn’t be moral without a State. If there is no guy-in-the-sky watching, then society will devolve in to chaos from your point of view. This is clearly the same argument and it has the same amount of evidence in its favor. It’s simply an antiquated position that is repeated often enough to be believed on its face. Where is your evidence that such a thing is true? Where in the literature can you point to examples that say voluntary actions necessarily devolve into chaos without coercive intervention? You can’t just make your claim without evidence.

In fact, while we’re at it, we should remember that burden of proof in this debate really shouldn’t be on me: I’m not the one making any significantly positive claims. Just as an atheist does not need to prove the nonexistence of a god, I do not need to prove that a State shouldn’t exist, it is you who needs to prove that it should exist. You are the one that needs to prove that there are voluntary actions which should not be permitted. You need to prove that coercion should be used legitimately against innocent people. You need to prove that monopolies in the area of laws and militaries are better than open competition. So I turn this conversation on you: prove to me that there are realms of life where coercion against innocent people is better than voluntary interaction.

Though, you didn’t really answer any of my last questions with any substance, you merely dismissed each of my points. In response to being an anarchist to every other government, you claimed that governments (unlike gods) weren’t mutually exclusive, therefore it’s not like religion. But the connection isn’t between religion, it’s between a belief in a god. You could surely believe in Thor and recognize that Odin exists and still be completely atheistic to Ra or Yahweh. Even though you believe in Thor and Odin (and all the other gods of your religion), you are still an atheist to most gods that have ever existed. And this really isn’t even the main point. Rather the point is *why* would you believe in the legitimacy of one government over another? Why Thor, why not Odin? And even then *that* misses the point. Because first you need to establish that these States should exist, that these gods do exist. Without that, you aren’t saying anything about anything.

Or at the very least you say contradictory things when you rely on these assumptions. For example, you imply that you can coherently believe in a State without believing a Total State (a world government) would eventually rise and then a few sentences later claim “I think that world government is inevitable.” You can’t have it both ways. Either you think a Total State would arise or it wouldn’t. And do you think it “should” happen? Is one world government better than countries? What about at the state, county, city level? Where is government most optimal? Why? What makes States’ coercion against innocent people “better at dispensing justice” than voluntary interaction? How does a State that violates people’s freedoms make it more qualified to protect them?

Even in your questions there are a slew of hidden assumptions. For instance you ask “how does a governmentless society deal with one group oppressing another?” What makes you think that would even happen? The UNR SFL and Circle K are governmentless societies, neither of which oppress the other. We could count the number of voluntary organizations around the world that oppress one another and compare it to the number of coercive organizations that do and arrive at a conclusion that would render your point moot. Discounting that evidence entirely (it is after all muddled in the fact that States do exist) we can then ask the question what “oppression” would look like under a voluntary private civilization? How does Wal-Mart or Google oppress people? The obvious indicators of war through out time have been nationalism, militarism, and conquest. Conquest only makes sense when you’ve got an “infinite” supply of one thing to trade for another in order to take yet more things. If I’m a State I can just print off money, give it to some citizens, fill their heads full of “duty” and “honor” and what not and then go make them napalm Vietnamese children. Can you imagine the outrage we would all feel if Google did that to protect a processor company from an ideology it didn’t find suitable? And yet it all seems to hunky dory when the US sends troops to Iraq and Afghanistan and kills thousands of civilians and even journalists (on camera!) in the name of Democracy or Liberty or Human Rights or WMDs. Where is your outrage? It’s nowhere to be found because you’ve still got that Old Testament version of government. Sure, you’ve got your New Testament morality gleaned over it, but your lumbering god is still righteous in his slaughter.

You then go on to completely skip over two huge criticisms of governments: how do you keep coercers from overly-coercing citizens? You just say Well, some governments are better than other at this. Obviously. That much is clear. But how does a government “of the people” prevent them from tyrannizing “the people”? Democratic governments have no more control by the governed than a voluntary organization, in fact it must have considerably less because there is no reason to “play nice” when you’re the one in charge of the rules. This goes back to Rand’s idea of “the sanction of the victim” which you should consider when making these arguments. The only reason we find “democracy” acceptable over “tyranny” is because the cost endured compared to the benefits is less in one than in the other. The coercive element, at this point, is as much a tax upon apathy than it is anything else. But you have still yet to prove why this apathy tax is better than no tax. And after you’ve done that you have to explain how it is that a society could properly control this modern day highwayman called the State.

Your response to my second point is quite odd. Just so we’re not mistaken, do you believe there should be one government over all the people of the world or not? You do concede (as I feel you must) that if governments are to exist, it seems that there is one “best” government that should rule over all people. Can you not see the parallels between this and saying that if there exist gods, we should worship the best one? My constant reference to religious themes is to underscore the irrationality that is inherent in your position. If we grant that we believe in a god, why not make it such that it is the best that could ever possibly exist? Why not give to him or her all the attributes that we would find comforting and reassuring and all things great and grand. That way when we speak of our god we can say that he is loving and caring and powerful and gives us the best of all possible worlds. We can do all this, but our mere description of such a god does not, in anyway, prove that a god exists. Similarly, we can give a State all the details and colorings-in that we want (social welfare programs, fair elections, a strong military, paved roads)…but none of this does anything to prove that a coercive entity should be called upon to provide such things.

And after all of this, you make the extraordinarily strange claim that “the proper way to do government is to have the people with the power to oppress others robbed of the ability to do so.” Perhaps the confusion is merely on my end, but what exactly is that suppose to mean? If I understand you right it means that we’ll put some people A in charge of the military that protects B, but give B the power to control A (through some sort of means). Hence a president is elected by the people he reigns over. It reminds me of Escher’s drawing of the hands drawing each other. It’s recursive. It’s like trying to arm wrestle with yourself. It doesn’t make any sense. At least not in any meaningful way. Your answer to coercion is more coercion to prevent more coercion. If you’ll beg my pardon, but how is this an answer to anything?

To wrap this up, I feel you need to fully answer at least one of the questions I have presented so far, perhaps starting at the beginning and explaining why some voluntary interactions shouldn’t be allowed. This is ultimately what the argument comes down to. In believing in the necessity of the State, you must believe that there are certain voluntary actions that people should not be allowed to do.

So please, if you expound nothing else, explain this to me,
Barry

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AnarchoDebates: Barry v. Keegan 1
By: Barry Belmont

There will likely be a series of debates all throughout the summer between me and various individuals about the plausibility of anarchocapitalism. Hopefully what these exchanges include will help you solidify your own positions in regards to the necessity/injustice of the existence of a State. All of these exchanges assume you have watched Anarchocapitalism Pt 2. Please do enjoy.

Keegan’s First Email

Hello Barry,

I hope all is well for your classes and such.  Mine are a bitch, which is probably why I spend so much time procrastinating with this discussion.

I did watch the entire lecture before replying, so there is no reason to be snide (unless you weren’t implying that I didn’t actually watch it–in which case, sorry I misunderstood).

My biggest objection would be in-group out-group mentality.  If you can show me that people do not do this, I still will not claim you are right (since there are too many other unanswered problems), but I will admit you are on the right track.

This is not the same as saying that people have empathy or altruism.  This is saying that people will not form groups which will help themselves above others, and/or help themselves at the expense of others.

If one of these books addresses this issue (not morality as a whole) then I will read it.  But I will admit it would take some pretty impressive evidence to convince that I am wrong on this issue (as it is evident in most human cultures and in most primate cultures).  ”Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”.

If you feel that this is an answerable question, and that you are on a role, you might want to also address why a thief or a murderer would ever willingly put himself under the authority of a court system.  They have everything to lose and nothing to gain.

And if you really feel like these are flies to be swatted down with the flick of a wrist, you might also want to address the issue of the courts and police being biased towards the people paying the bills.

I suspect that you, like me, have spent some time arguing with Creationists.  And if there is one thing that they all seem to do (aside from quote scripture at me), it is to give me a reading list of twenty or thirty books which prove Creation.  I don’t want to spend years of my life becoming a scholar to a theory I don’t believe in, and if you have been in my position I am sure you can understand my reasons for feeling this way.  I will read one book on why in-group/out-group mentality does not actually exist, and I will read one other book that you feel is in defense of anarchocapitalism.  More than that I will probably be unwilling to do.  And even that will have to wait until I get through the books currently on my plate.  There are four that I have to read, but I should be done with them in less than a month (I was also going to attempt “Tragedy and Hope”, but it is far too daunting and boring).

You don’t need to give me a lengthy response to anything.  I’m pretty good at being able to see the argument from the other side, so if you just give me the gist, I can fill in the meat of the argument myself (in this way you might be able to quickly cover the 12 (although only 10 are important) problems mentioned previously).

Keegan

P.S.  I would have expected you to respect a critical response, or at the very least to give positive lip-service to it.

Barry’s Response

Hello.

It is ironic that you should bring up your discussions with “creationists.” Most likely they are of the new flavor of ‘Intelligent Design.’ It is ironic because presumably you see through the flaws of their arguments quite easily: no intelligent designer is necessary to create the order and complexity we see around us. We know this because there is evidence that a bottom-up system called natural selection does this. In fact, evidence presented in favor of intelligent design (the human eye, the nervous system, prefrontal cortex, bacteria flagellum, etc) all not only point toward natural selection but would be really silly evidence in favor of an intelligent designer (for instance, why would an intelligent designer put the eye upside down and backward?). You are able to see quite easily the flaws in their arguments in favor of “intelligent design” but when you are asked to reconsider your beliefs in an intelligent designer, namely the State, you get just as up in arms as they do. Indeed, it seems you fall into many of the same traps they do.

Consider for instance that you are an anarchist to every other government but your own. You certainly do not recognize the legitimacy of the Egyptian government’s claim over you or France’s sovereignty over you. You don’t recognize the Queen of England as anything more than a figurehead, the same goes for the Pope and the Dalai Lama. You recognize the American government’s dominion over you simply because you happened to have been born under it. Had you been born in Egypt or France you would have claimed they had dominion over you. There is an obvious parallel to be made to which religion you happen to subscribe to. One supports intelligent design because they just happened to have been born a Christian in contemporary America. This Christian knows what it’s like to be an atheist to all other gods, just as you know what it’s like to be an anarchist to all other governments.

More to the point how can one coherently believe in a State without believing there should be a Total State? All the currently governments have lived in a state of anarchy amongst each other, have they not? If Amsterdam has marijuana legalized and America does not, who is to remedy this injustice? Or are laws as fickle as all that? And if they are, if laws are so arbitrary and context specific, why call them laws? If one advocates the existence of a State, invariably they must follow this logic to its bitter end with all people under the banner of a single (hopefully benevolent) State.

But as you said, there exists in-group/out-group (IG/OG) mentality within the human race. Fair enough. I can accept that. But how is this such a bad thing? We must separate the issues. In-group/out-group doesn’t mean anything by itself. People are either a part of UNR SFL or they’re not. I treat people who are members differently than those who are not. There is nothing wrong with this. The problem would come if I aggressed against someone because of this. But this is a separate issue. It’s not the IG/OG that’s bad, it’s the coercion. Mets fans may hate Yankees fans but so long as there isn’t any violence or threats of violence, then where is the harm? Do you see why we must pull these two issues apart? If there is no actual harm in being a part of a group, then, what exactly is wrong with it?

So say I want to be part of private society A and you wanted to be part of private society B. One like country, the other likes rock’n'roll. One likes chunky peanut butter, the other smooth. Just completely irreconcilable societies who won’t even trade with one another, that’s how much this bitter feud has gone on. So long as it’s all completely voluntary there is absolutely nothing wrong with it. What if, you may object, they hate each other so much that they decide to fight? But remember that is a different issue. It’s not the tribalism that is wrong there, it is the coercion. The exact same critique can be made of existing States: what happens if Canada finally gets sick and tired of America and decides to attack them? Or New Mexico decides to fight Old Mexico or Arizona. Detroit vs Luxembuorg. Certainly numerous scenarios can be presented as “What if A, *verbs* B?” As long as the *verbs* part is voluntary in nature (“loves,” “trades with,” “hates”…) there is nothing wrong with it. There can’t be…unless you think that there are voluntary actions which people should not be allowed to freely engage in. It’s when *verbs* becomes coercive (“fights,” “kills,” “invades”…) that problems arise.

I don’t think you would be so bold to claim that tribalism necessarily causes violence, but let’s assume you were. This claim has already been undermined by the fact that UNR SFL is tribal in nature and is completely nonviolent. Adherents to Jainism are tribal and by their very nature non-violent. There are tons of examples ranging from basketweaving classes to high schools to basketball teams’ fans to you name it that are very much prone to IG/OG mentality and yet are not violent to a significantly larger extent than would be predicted by chance alone. So this empirical claim of IG/OG -> violence is not viable.

Where does this leave us? I think I have shown that your objection to the idea of a purely voluntary society on the grounds of IG/OG is not strong enough to warrant casting such a society aside and replacing it with a coercive State apparatus. Simply because IG/OG mentality exists is not evidence in favor of the necessity of coercion, of taxes, of a monopoly of defense services. Indeed, imagine if your IG/OG argument was strong enough to overturn the idea of a voluntary society: it would necessarily be strong enough to overturn the idea of even a governable society on two accounts: 1) The governed and the governing would split into two groups that would not peaceably interact. If they could peaceably interact than the coercive apparatus between them wouldn’t be necessary. 2) What is to prevent the monopolistic agent of defense services, an in-group, from aggressing against all other out-groups, to the point of eliminating them entirely as they are the only ones with a sizeable supply of tools for eradication? What is to prevent IG/OG aggression  in this realm and not others? It is quite clear that if IG/OG dynamics wouldn’t reach a crescendo in such an environment as that between the monopolistic defense agency and all others (what could be easier than the military extorting us all for money?) then clearly IG/OG is not a sufficient criticism of a voluntary society.

I know you had more in that letter of yours, but I would like to ask that we try to remain focused in this series of letters. I don’t mind a tangential point or example periodically, but we should really hammer home one point at a time. For instance, I asked a very specific question when I asked you to participate in this: what are the conditions that I need to meet to convince you that anarchocapitalism is a good idea? In other words, I would like to know that you are willing to change your mind and what it would take to do this. We should be up front with one another about this. For example, I would renounce anarchocapitalism entirely if it turned out people weren’t mostly “not-bad.” Or I would believe in a benevolent dictator if it could be shown that it would vastly improve the human condition. Or I would believe in democracy if it turned out the majority was always right. These are very specific things which someone could convince me of. I would like to know that you are willing to be convinced that a voluntary society is possible. Because if you’re not, then we likely won’t have nearly as fruitful a conversation as I had imagined.

Hope this helps,

Barry

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Physicists Study How Moral Behaviour Evolved
By: Barry Belmont

This article originally appeared on the physicsworld.com news section [hence, the British-ism in the title]. It is written by Edwin Cartlidge, a science writer based in Rome. For those of you with a particular interest in the ‘game theory’ approach to the development of social cohesion.

Physicists Study How Moral Behaviour Evolved

A statistical-physics-based model may shed light on the age-old question “how can morality take root in a world where everyone is out for themselves?” Computer simulations by an international team of scientists suggest that the answer lies in how people interact with their closest neighbours rather than with the population as a whole.

Led by Dirk Helbing of ETH Zurich in Switzerland, the study also suggests that under certain conditions, dishonest behaviour of some individuals can actually improve the social fabric.

Public goods such as environmental resources or social benefits are often depleted because self-interested individuals ignore the common good. Co-operative behaviour can be enforced via punishment but ultimately co-operators who punish will lose out to co-operators who don’t punish because punishing requires time and effort. These non-punishing co-operators then lose out to the non co-operators, or free riders. With free riders dominant the resource is depleted, to the detriment of everyone – a scenario known as “tragedy of the commons”.

How, then, does co-operation arise? Some researchers have proposed that co-operators who punish could survive through “indirect reciprocity”, the idea that working for the common good will enhance a person’s reputation and ensure that they benefit in the future. Helbing’s group, however, has shown that this is not needed for co-operation to flourish.

Emergent phenomena

They came to this conclusion by focusing on how individuals behave with their nearest neighbours, rather than a wider group that is representative of the entire population. Like nearest-neighbour models of magnetism – which are often more realistic than mean-field approximations – they say that this approach captures “emergent” phenomena that would otherwise be lost.

Their game-theory-based model comprises a square lattice of tens of thousands of points, each representing an individual. Each individual could adopt one of four strategies – co-operate without punishing free riders; co-operate and punish (“moralist”); free ride; or free ride but also punish other free riders (“immoralist”). Initially, the four strategies are distributed randomly among individuals and the system evolves to find out which behaviour wins in the long run.

This evolution is influenced by three variables – the fines that penalize free riders; the cost of administering punishment; and the “synergy factor”, which stipulates how much the sum of individual contributions is enhanced by collective action.

The computer program picks an individual at random and calculates how much it stands to gain relative to its four nearest neighbours, given the strategies employed by each neighbour. The exercise is then repeated for the neighbours themselves. The strategy employed by each individual was then modified in light of the success of their neighbours, so that individuals could imitate those who performed better than themselves.

Intriguing results

Running the simulation for up to 10 million iterations yielded some intriguing results. As expected, if the punishment fine to cost ratio and synergy factor were low then everyone would eventually become a free rider, just as moralists would prevail if the fine was set high enough. However, they also found that moralists could win out over non-punishing co-operators even if the cost of administering punishment was relatively high. This was because imitation of better-performing neighbours soon led to small clusters of both co-operators and moralists in a sea of free-riders. With moralists better than co-operators at dealing with free riders they came to dominate, even though they would lose out if placed in direct competition with the non-punishers.

An “unholy collaboration” between moralists and immoralists was also seen whereby individuals adopting these strategies could coexist at the expense of both co-operators and free riders. This, the researchers found, would occur if the cost of punishment was low, the synergy not particularly high, and the fines moderately high. As they point out, this scenario is supported by the real-life existence of immoralists.

New type of collective behaviour

Helbing’s colleague, Attila Szolnoki of the Institute for Technical Physics and Materials Science in Budapest sums up the work, “The contribution of statistical physics to this research field could be to realize that large numbers of players can result in a new type of collective behaviour that cannot be derived from two-player analyses. Computer models can therefore be considered as pre-experiments that help to design more sophisticated lab experiments.”

The team is currently building a laboratory capable of carrying out game-theory experiments with up to 36 people, which should allow them to test the predictions of their model.

Herbert Gintis, an economist and game-theory expert at the Santa Fe Institute and Central European University in Budapest, believes that Helbing and colleagues are right to incorporate small-scale interactions into their model. But he says that they should also factor in genetic relations between people because individuals’ behaviours depend on whether or not they are dealing with a close relative.

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